Ten Question Interview: Joe Creighton – Wiffleball2K.com
Back in 2000, I got the idea to form my own wiffleball league in Cohoes, New York from a web site run by Joe Creighton across the country in Chico, California. Joe, who is now living in Seattle, Washington, is the founder and commissioner of Wiffleball2K, and was kind enough to answer a few questions in my first ever MLW interview.
The idea to start a league was simply a byproduct of myself, my brother, and good buddy Scott Carmichael simply growing up, ironically enough. We always played “wiffleball” in some form, with a variety of equipment and rules, but as we grew older (by which I mean our early teen years) we found ourselves wanting to track stats and play “official” games instead of farting around in the backyard. We invited some other friends and everything just sort of snowballed. Then the internet arrived and the website made us “international” in a way that the internet makes everything international.
We probably got about 4-5 leagues off the ground throughout the world. Just kidding…probably more like 400-500.
You’re living in Seattle, WA now. You mentioned before that your brother started a wiffleball league there, but it just wasn’t as fun as the Chico, CA league. What was different about it, and what could have made it better?
I believe we used the Easton ball, which I found inferior to the Cosom ball. While we kept stats, there was no website, and I think I only received stat updates if I bugged my brother enough to send me the Excel file.
Homeruns were a little too few and far between…I think only three of us were even capable of jacking one. For that matter, GAMES themselves were a little few and far between. The guys who did play seemed to enjoy it enough, so I’m surely just unfairly comparing it to the majestic league I had just left.
As for what could have made it better, in my humble opinion, I’d take every aspect that was different from the original league and make it the SAME as the original league, or as close as possible. I detest change in any form.
Somebody actually wore a buttoned-up collared shirt? That’s bad. Take it from someone who has played games in jean shorts.
Moving on, I often get asked, “What’s the best way to start my own wiffleball league?” I always recommend inviting friends, neighbors, classmates, co-workers, and so on. Then those people can start inviting their friends, neighbors, etc., and you can build upon that. Having put together your own League Starter Kit a few years ago, do you have any other tips on how to start and maintain a successful wiffleball league?
1. Choose, very carefully, the equipment you want to use and the type of field you want to have. Test it. Not just the equipment, but the space. The distance from home plate to first base, the mound distance, etc. If you want a lot of homeruns, don’t make it impossible to hit homeruns. If you don’t want every groundball to be an automatic single, space the bases appropriately, or add a fielder.
2. Test it more. Make tweaks to the field and/or rules to make the game play the way you want it to play. If you actually have friends at your disposal, have them test with you and give input. Invite friends who are both better and worse than you and see how the game plays for them. And don’t just ask for input and then forget everything they suggested the moment they turn around. Actually use them.
3. Start with friends yes, but more specifically, start with friends who will be fun to play with and against who are also somewhat equal in terms of ability. Maybe “forget” to mention it to that other friend you have who throws xbox controllers when he loses in Madden. Eventually, he’ll find out and maybe want to play, but by then you’ve got a solid base of fun guys already there, so his temper tantrums can possibly be “tempered” since he’s now outnumbered by normal people.
Getting evenly-able friends is good so you don’t have the one guy who’s hitting .894 while the rest of the league hits .175. Soon enough Kelly Leak will get bored and leave, sticking you the rest of the Bad News Bears as the entirety of the league.
4. Understand the league is YOUR baby. People will disappoint you. They won’t enjoy the league as much as you do, or take it as seriously as you do…some are just there because their girlfriend is at work and they’re bored and/or they wanna swap stories about last night’s house party. They’ll miss lots of games…or “forget” about them. Or maybe they’ll want to bring their friend into the league, but it’s painfully obvious the friend’s never played sports before or he smells funny (or both). Or there’s the guy who actually takes it MORE seriously than you…and he just kind of creeps everybody out. It may well be the same guy who can’t win at Double Dribble and blames the controller. These people will come and go, just be prepared for them.
5. Start a website. Make it look semi-professional. Lots of guys will enjoy being the subject of such a site and reward you with increased dedication and participation. Bring video cameras or at least digital cameras
and capture yourselves playing the game. Pirate some editing equipment and make highlight videos. The players will love them. Plus, even if the footage is ignored by everyone, 20 years from now you’ll have a nice little relic from your youth for your kids/grandkids, assuming you’re fertile. I regret nothing about the (thousands of hours of) time I spent making fruitless videos and I try my best to archive them so they’ll last as long as possible.
6. For the love of god, track your stats. Don’t just keep score. Get as detailed as your friends will allow. Not only is it fun to watch the numbers accumulate throughout the season(s), but it gives most people incentive to try.
7. Look at other, real leagues…they tend to have beginnings, middles, and ends. Do the same. Build up anticipation for opening day. Have an All-Star Weekend break up the monotony of the regular season. Have a playoff system. Give out awards when it’s all over. Wash, rinse, repeat, grow.
8. Do not brag in public about your wiffleball league to non-wiffleball players/fans, or even think about bringing it up in casual conversation unless you’re directly asked about it (you won’t).
Clint Wattenberg and Joe Creighton
Then if none of those tips work, just do what we did:
1. Play your first three summers in a convoluted backyard setup where you swim to first base and only one player has pit hair.
2. After a few years, create a website and proclaim yourselves the world’s best league and website. If people do not respond (they won’t), simply get louder. It’s the internet, who cares? Also helps if your website is in fact relatively good.
3. Choose two or three television personalities and pretend they write for your site so every article doesn’t have “Commissioner [Your name]” as the byline.
3a. A couple years into the whole fake celeb writer fun, actually get in touch with said celebs and let them in on your ingenious use of their likeness. Expect platitudes and awed reverence.
3b. Remove likeness of said celebs from your site under threat of litigation.
4. Find a couple leagues and mock their websites mercilessly via message board comments and emails. For us it was the NJWA.
5. Profit!
I also have to stress the importance of being careful posing as others. Many years ago, I wrote a couple of articles posing as Joel Winkelsas, a contestant on “Who Wants to be a Millionaire?” Within a couple of weeks, somebody that knew him found my site, and Mr. Winkelsas himself contacted me. He wasn’t happy, so I took those articles down.
That reminds me, one time, you had a player’s father dress up as John Jaha of the Oakland A’s and throw out the first pitch at one of your wiffleball games. How many people did this fool? Did you try anything else like this?
Ok, maybe it wasn’t, I forget. And I can’t prove it fooled anybody. It’s plausible I suppose that John Jaha would come out and hang out with us…he wasn’t too bigtime, and maybe he was the uncle of one of the guys in our league. It’s possible.
Sort of like when we pretended Donnie Jeffcoat and Omar Gooding wrote for our site. Many people around our age knew who they were, but I suppose they were unknown enough to have it be minutely *possible* that they could spend their free time screwing around with a wiffleball league in CA. After all, Chico, CA sounds awfully like Chino, CA, and that’s kinda near LA, right?
The thing was, we weren’t trying to fool anybody. It simply worked out that way. We just thought we were being “clever.” But then a month later I’d get an email from some 14 year-old asking how we got Omar Gooding to write for our site. Oh, to still have all those emails from 1998-2001.
OK, it’s clear that you prefer the Cosom Fun Ball, but it’s hard to find those here, so we use a similar ball made by Easton. Did you ever try the ‘official’ Wiffle Ball, or any other plastic baseballs? If so, what did you think of them?
We wanted to run the bases and have quasi-MLBesque batting/pitching stats. I honestly think it makes our game a hell of a lot more fun than your traditional wiffleball game, but now that I don’t have a league to promote relentlessly and annoyingly, I’ll just say that your mileage may vary. It’s not like we *tried* to play with the official ball and were just too overwhelmed by the mastery required to use it. It just wasn’t the way we wanted to play. Cosom gave us the perfect ball. I saw though recently that Rawlings apparently now makes a Cosom-esque ball, though I have not tried it.
They aren’t really “equipment” items but I would recommend a digital camera or video camera
of some sort…I don’t think any league should be run without them. It’s 2009/2010 people, and YouTube is easy to work with.
I’d recommend a pre-made strike zone of some sort, though if you can function with human umpires without fist fights breaking out every other inning, then god speed.
I don’t really care one way or the other if you do nowadays, but I think any league worth its salt runs the bases, and therefore I think you need bases. If you don’t run the bases, then please admit you’re not a sport. Few things in life are funnier to me than watching those clips from other leagues where the guy (invariably in some stupid cut-off tshirt) hits some titanic homerun, shows up the pitcher a little bit, and delivers a couple Bash Brother bumps with his teammates while retiring straight to the lawn chair. He may as well have just hit the bullseye on the dart board for how impressed I am with his athletic prowess.
Was there anything with your wiffleball league that you wanted to do, but never got a chance to do? Would you do anything differently now?
We wanted to stream our games on our site at least close to live. We wanted to grow to the point where we were turning people away, but we sort of ran out of time on that one.
Multi-camera games were brought up, but ultimately never implemented for whatever reason. Uniforms of some sort would have been interesting and fun. We never really kept track of fielding stats because it just wasn’t feasible, but I wish we’d at least tried. And then tie those into the pitching stats to see who was getting helped, who was getting jobbed, etc. Stats in general would be WAY more advanced than they were back then.
Technologically, there are dozens of things we would do differently if we existed today. We wouldn’t feature those crappy little 160×120 video clips, or audio-only mp3 files. Our website would be exponentially more ridiculous in its size and scope since there are developer tools now that will allow it. We’d probably send out emails/txt msgs/tweets to Donnie Jeffcoat and Omar Gooding and see if they wanted to write for real this time. Maybe Tahj Mowry as well.
I don’t think private fields are something we’d do, unless I came into some Lotto money, but I’d probably try to do something with a fence, because it just adds that much more to homeruns and overall aesthetic. And if I did it all now, I’d be 29 instead of 19 and would therefore be, sadly, much more mature about things, so no more flame wars with east coast leagues.
One thing that I’ve noticed is that we’re both left-handed, started a wiffleball league, played our games in a cul-de-sac, owned (and apparently broke) the same pool basketball hoop (you used the blue backboard from yours as your strike zone) and started web sites for our wiffleball leagues. Are we the only two people on Earth that fit that description?
I hear you’re returning to Chico, CA at the end of December for the “Swingin’ For Santa” wiffleball event. Tell me about that. Will Dr. Rapp and Cliff Rancho be covering the games?
Usually Terry and I provide gifts. In 2005, we produced DVDs featuring most highlight videos we’d ever made, dating back to 1998. In 2006, we produced five varieties of homemade soda (one for each team we had in the league, for example “Horsemen Cream Soda,” “Wiffolution Lemon Lime,” etc), each with its own packaging. This year will be something else. Afterward we sit at a table and see who can eat a huge burrito the fastest.
![]() Swingin' For Santa |
And of course Dr. Rapp and Cliff Rancho will be there! We’re hoping to give Cliff my brother’s cell phone and use of our Wiffleball2k Twitter feed to post stuff throughout the day, but we’ll see if he’ll be able to wrap his head around the Rubik’s Cube that is Twitter (not to mention the Blackberry…not positive Cliff’s ever used a cellphone, period).
Dr. Rapp is currently putting together his Sportsbook collection of odds for both the games and the burrito eating contest, and we’re hoping he can provide some sort of insightful analysis after the events. He did suffer a stroke about a year ago, so we’re moving ahead cautiously and planning on not overworking him like we did back in the day.
Last question: You load up 3 of your best players and your wiffleball gear in the car. I do the same. We both drive until we meet somewhere in the middle of the country and have a 4-on-4 MLW vs. WB2K game. Who wins, and what’s the score?
I’d bring along Scott Carmichael first and foremost. You can write all the flowery poetry you want about Quentin Jensen but I guarantee Scott is his equal at worst. If Scott has one flaw, it’s that he hits balls too hard, causing them to crack more quickly which causes you to spend more money at Big 5 Sporting Goods. I’ve been around sports all my life and have seen some great athletes, but I have not seen anyone play any sport with the perfection that was Scott holding a yellow bat or throwing a plastic ball.
Dave Cain would be next…slightly below Scott in hitting, merely “good” pitcher who would throw strikes, forcing you guys to take the bat off your shoulder. But he possesses two of the best hands I’ve ever seen in the field. He’ll also pound a case of Diet Dr. Pepper and will provide the transportation as we arrive at our destination in his mini monster-truck (assuming we’re also talking about 2001-2003 era gas prices). You guys urinating in your denim shorts when you see us parking his beast will provide us with our first of many critical psychological edges.
Casey Sylvester - Not on the roster
We have better-skilled players, but for the 3rd spot I’m taking Darnell Uhland. Again, he’ll make you put the ball in play and he can rake, though he’s clearly a step below Cain and a couple steps below Carmichael. The main thing though is he’ll ensure the game is fun no matter the outcome. Instead of long, frustratingly quiet drives back home, win (us) or lose (you), most people will be chattering happily in the car saying things like “I don’t even remember who won, but how about that Darnell guy? Remember when he wore that bright orange ski mask and played the entire 3rd inning with it on, even though it was obvious he had no peripheral vision? At first I thought he was sort of mentally disabled, but it turned out he’s just awesome!”
I guess I’m the obvious 4th spot. Assuming it’s only a pitcher and a fielder, it’s guaranteed there’s a hole in the field that my bat will find, and you will literally get NOTHING by me when I’m in the field. I got nothing but hard cheese from the mound but everything’s in your weak zone so have fun with that.
Final score: Bulls, 240 to 87.
I guess that means it’s time to wrap-up this interview. Before I go, is there any chance I can get a link from WB2K? You don’t need to do a fancy writeup, a link to MLW is fine.
If any other leagues want to get added to the sites who haven’t already…then take Shaun’s route and interview me with a bunch of easy questions and/or plug our site and/or send us money.
![]() Swingin' For Santa |
Joe, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to answer these questions, and adding some humor along the way. Best of luck to you in your “Swingin’ For Santa” games next weekend, and thanks for offering to give us a write-up.
If you enjoyed Joe’s responses, please check out Wiffleball2K.com, and the Swingin’ For Santa site.
And if you’re a wiffleball celebrity, or just a regular celebrity and would like to be interviewed for this site, please contact us.
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